German Guy:Hi List,
Just a brief update on the recent semiheated debate concerning an upcoming
change of paradigm in cyclocross racing: The racing season has started here
in Europe, and I have yet to see a single (!) racer with disc-brakes.
Cheers,
M. Budd:The component manufacturers still haven’t caught up, as soon as a disc system is available that doesn’t carry a substantial weight penalty you’ll be seeing them out there. He’s no elite so it doesn’t matter but a customer of mine has been racing on discs 2 days a week since September and loves them for their consistency, power, and modulation; even built up some tubular rims for them. I found a source for some used and new old stock track tubular rims on which the fact that there is no braking surface doesn’t matter if discs are run, some of them weigh below 300 grams and this is with 1984 technology, a carbon race wheel designed from the ground up with no consideration for rim braking can be made extremely light. There is no reason ounces can’t be dropped from the calipers as well.
Builder from Indiana:Why wouldnt you just use a Velocity Elite tubular NMSW? Elites are used all the time in cx so why go mine 25 year old rims?
Me:Never really liked the velocities too much, they don’t build up as nicely as an eyelet-ed rim in my experience. To be honest there is nothing I’ve seen on the market today in a metal rim that matches the finish of the old stuff and it works great, there is a reason old MA40s and such are worth twice as much now as they were 25 years ago.
Builder from Philadelphia:I was with you on the eyelets until the Stan’s rims. There are few aluminum rims on the market that can handle the abuse Stan’s rims are taking and they look crappy (the welded seam could look better) but work amazing. The Stan’s Flow is BOMBPROOF and build straight as an arrow. The new Alpha rim is killer and once tubeless road and cross takes off (and it will) those rims will be top of everyone’s list.
Not very often things are cheap (all relative), light and strong. This is one of the few exceptions.
German Guy:Even though it’s besides the point, but never, not even in a week of sundays, will a GEL 280 rim survive for any lenght of time in a rearwheel when built up with a 9-speed cassette type of hub. Already when building it it becomes obvious that these rims went out of fashion after a brief heyday for a reason. AX Lightness rims for instance will work just fine though, as will some other around or under 300g.
There are a number of manufacturers (Trickstuff being one of them) offering technical solutions for dropbarshiftlevers with hydraulic disk brakes. No need to wait for the big guns to catch up. Still discbrakes remain unpopular.
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Other Builder:I don’t believe the 280 was ever recommended for a rear wheel, even BITD. I do know some track guys that built both front and rear with GEL 280s, but those were specific event wheels. Mavic always stated that the 280 was a complement to the GEL 330. Personally, I think anybody who believes that the rims of old are better than the ones produced today have been indulging in some of Humboldt’s finest.
best,
Me (to Philadelphia Builder):Are the Stan’s tubeless ready as well, Or are you talking about a tubular? Either way, why not? tubeless for cross is something I am interested in as well. An ugly welded seam’s beauty is in its strength (my other gripe with Velocity’s rim is the pinned construction) and with the requirement that there be a smooth braking surface removed from the rim why not forgo the expensive SUP step that mavic uses to smooth it out.
I got some GP4s for free on a wheel I am rebuilding for someone with a clincher, never raced a tubular and am excited to get some tires for these and give em a rip when the glue dries. May have to build a disc compatible cross bike for myself next season to put my money where my mouth is as far as the capability of the disc tubular wheel and braking system and may have to do it with potato chip profile track rims from another era. You’ve got to ride what you’ve got though and it is clinchers and cantilevers for me on a frame I built for someone else in the Cat 3 race at North Hampton tomorrow.
Enjoying the Requirement of the New England weather that I drink copious cups of coffee for an hour on a rainy morning, got to do some welding and then following two crazy people around the leaf slick and rocky trails at Harold Parker. I borrowed some hot shit wheels for my mountain bike to have it rolling at the Philly show. It was too busy over the weekend to get away to hit Fairmount Park and the thing is begging to be ridden, all reports are that the all aluminum Cross Max accelerate unbelievably compared with any of the steel spoked handbuilts I’ve used in the past, we’ll see.
Anyone mind if I swipe this whole conversation to my blog?
M.Budd (to german guy):I’ve an idea in mind myself for a shift system integrable with a road bar hydraulic lever, not surprised to be beaten to the punch on it, I’d love a link to the product you are talking about. The de-integrated shift system Budd Bike Works has currently in Beta Production Testing is geared towards freeing a rider from being limited to a single cog spacing configuration from the platform, so technically I am not beholden to the current convention of an overly dished rear wheel, but you are right that the GEL 280 is a rim that should only be considered on a front wheel beneath a light rider.
M.Budd (shut up already):It seems like the range of companies offering rim products may have been a little broader in the days before so much consolidation of manufacturing in the pacific rim occurred, therefore the product put out was prettier to compete and for the need of a lightweight competition tubular-very sufficient.
